Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong Response
Research women's roles in the Vietnam war. How many women were in the Vietnam war? What were their roles? How did the war affect them? Consider how Mary Anne compares to real women in the war. Can her story be considered a "true war story" according to O'Brien's definition?
Your response must be at least 300 words, typed. Feel free to make it longer. Post it in the comments section below.
Your response must be at least 300 words, typed. Feel free to make it longer. Post it in the comments section below.
Though, compared to the men, there're only a little women in the Vietnam war, according to the Vietnam Women's Memorial Foundation's estimation , there're still about 11,ooo military women were stationed in Vietnam during the conflict. Nearly all of them were volunteers, and 90 percent of them serve as military nurse, though the women also worked as physicians, air traffic controllers, intelligence officers, clerks and other positions in U.S. Unlike Mary Anne, most of them worked on behalf of the United State. In the story, O'Brien portrays the Vietnam as a place that can have strong influence on the people, especially the women soldiels came here. In order to do so, he first emphasizes the differences between the native Vietnam and the American. Some people came here and become obsessed with it, like Mary Anne. However, there are also some people ignore the differences and insist their own culture, like Mark Fossie. This disparity between them directly led to the different ending for each of them. Mary's necklace which is made of tongues shows her strong desire to assimilate into the native Vietnam culture. Surrounded by the tongues and by other tribal elements, Mary became more and more into it and finally crossed to the other side and became part of the land. This story break apart the things that we consider as "moral". But true war story, as O'Brien introduced, is never moral, nor suggest the models of proper human behavior. And it's actually embarrassed us, like O'Brien said. Moreover, this story is really specific and doesn't generalize the common features of the war, which is an essential standard O'Brien has mentioned. This story vividly turns inside into the issue that happened, the deep desire that Mary want to blend into the native culture, Mark's reaction towards his girlfriend's strange behaviors to make "our stomach" believe.
ReplyDeleteWomen played a crucial role in the Vietnam War. Most women worked as nurses, while others served directly in combat. In the U.S., women worked as medical assistants and clerks. Women were air traffic controllers, intelligence officers, and weather monitors. They participated in the U.S. Navy, U.S. Military, Marines, and some worked with organizations such as the Red Cross, Catholic Relief Services, and the United Service Organizations. Not only did American women participate, but Vietnamese women too. Vietnamese women were expected to stay home and provide for their family and soldiers. Women who served at bases, also helped the locals from Vietnam. Women helped save the lives of men in combat everyday. They provided care, medical assistance, and sometimes romantic companions. Very few women died because of the war. They’re hard work and dedication helped America succeed in the war.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne’s original intent of being at the base was to serve as a companion for Mark Fossie. Then, Mary Anne learned and eventually adapted to the war. Mary Anne served as entertainment (for the men), a nurse, and even helped some villagers. O’ Brien writes “Mary Anne wasn’t afraid to get her hands bloody. At times, in fact, she seemed fascinated by it” (O’ Brien). As time passed, Mary Anne began to enjoy her time in Vietnam. Rat tells O’ Brien that Mary Anne would take walks and learned how to use weapons. She also started to act like the men. She stopped caring about hygiene and cut her hair. This raised tension between her and Mark Fossie. He grew uncomfortable with who she became, how “Nam” changed her. Mary Anne started to leave at night and act differently. Mary Anne’s original purpose of coming to Vietnam changed. She fell in love with the simple life and culture.
O’ Brien writes how a war story makes “you feel intense, out-of-the-skin awareness of your living self—-your truest self” (77). Mary Anne’s war story can be classified as true because in the end, she felt that the war brought her closest to her true purpose. It was not the war specifically, but the nature and how beautiful it could be. Her story goes along side with O’ Brien’s interpretation of a true war story.
There were over 265,000 women who served in the military of the United States. Out of the many women, about 10,000 served in-country during the Vietnam War and approximately 11,000 American women were put in Vietnam during this war. Most women served in the medical field along with other departments which is associated with the Red Cross. Some served as nurses and physicians while others served as communication specialists or air traffic controllers. Surprisingly, unlike the Vietnam Women’s Memorial, there was no record of the Vietnamese women who served in the war. According to the Vietnam Women’s Memorial Foundation, “48% of the women who served during the Vietnam conflict would suffer from some form of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) during their lives” (Evans). Many others have had health problems in association with Agent Orange exposure. This war has affected both physically and mentally.
ReplyDeleteMarry Anne was first portrayed as an innocent girl which was the idealistic view of girls back in America.. Mary is a symbol of those who don’t belong where they are. Her original purpose at Vietnam was for her to act as Mark Fossie’s girlfriend, but she adapts the war environment and becomes part of it. If she were like the real women during the Vietnam War, she wouldn’t be shooting with snipers or pistols but taking care of the injured. She is sort of sucked into Vietnam itself and believes that Vietnam is the place where she can find her true self. Hence, she learns about the cultures and traditions of it which is shown through her singing and the necklace made up of human tongues. According to O’Brien, a “true war story” would have the linkage and connection between love and war. Mary Anne has mixed emotions about love with Fossie and about war in Vietnam. Love and war prevents emotions from interceding. She is more realistic in a way that she lives based off these emotions without the much consideration between love and war.
During the Vietnamese war, women played a very important role. Women fighting on the American side, were mostly nurses and secretaries, while women on the Vietnamese side were more active and many of them were fighting. Although many women did not fight, they like the fighting soldiers were traumatized from experiencing the war, and many experienced PTSD. Many women in North Vietnam, organized their own groups to go and defend roads, parks and bridges against southern Vietnamese fighters. Although fighting and helping out during times of war, once the war was over the Vietnamese women went back to their traditional role of staying at home and taking care of the children. Fighting in the war, there were on average 265,000 women who served in the army, but only about 7,500 who actually actively fought on the battleground. Even though many women helped to fight in the war, there courage and bravery was not accounted for because everyone was too busy celebrating the achievements of the men who fought. After the war, men were getting treated better as they were now veterans, while women who fought were not getting any special treatment. In fact they were treated worse than they were before the war. This shows the patriarchy that existed at the time of this war. In the real war, there were many women who wanted to fight for their country instead of just being nurses, which is similar to what Mary Anne wanted. She truly enjoyed fighting in the war and wanted to be a soldier. Mary Anne, like others helped fight for her country and what she believes in. According to Tim O'Brien, this can be considered a true war story. This story is more than just about war. It is a love story between two people, who have opposite views. She wanted to stay and fight, while her boyfriend wanted to go back to the states and start a life together.
ReplyDeleteThe 11,000 American women located in-country for the purposes of furthering the United States’ cause during the Vietnam War played important and diverse roles as the conflict bore on. ~90% of the women participating in the American war effort volunteered to do so, primarily serving on behalf of the Navy, Marine Corps, Women’s Army Corps (WAC), the Air Force, and Army Medical Specialist Corps. A number of women also opted to engage in the war through charities/non-profits (e.g. the Red Cross) and by reporting on the warfare and the developments surrounding it to news organizations. Among the estimated 11,000 women actively involved in the war, however, 5,000 were nurses - providing for the well being of soldiers injured on duty. The role of administering medicine remained foremost of those played by women during the war, due to recruiters’ perception that females were better suited for positions that did not constitute actual combat. This idea was challenged by the WAC, eventually resulting in the installment of 20 female officers and 130 enlisted women in Vietnam.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne, the subject of the chapter “Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong” of Tim O’Brien’s The Things They Carried, contradicts this understanding of a woman’s capabilities. Having at first travelled to Vietnam to be with her boyfriend, Mark Fossie, she appears naive to his battalion. As the men spend more time with her though, they find that her ‘culottes and sexy pink sweater’ will do little to forecast her yet to be discovered admiration of armed conflict. Mary Anne develops an attachment to the intensity and rapidity of war. She learns to enjoy the provision of immediate medical attention in a fast-paced environment and even the firing and maintenance of weaponry. This affinity for warfare is cultivated within her to the extent that she decides to join a squadron of Green Berets on their missions, effectively abandoning her boyfriend: the original reason behind her voyage to Vietnam. This complete and utter neglect of Fossie on the part of Mary Anne renders this a “true” war story, in accordance with O’Brien’s requirements of a narrative to be classified as such. Fossie’s sudden loss of a loved one in the hopes that their relationship would strengthen in his times of hardship exemplifies the pure meaningless of war, in spite of its disastrous effects. One would not be able to gather any commentary on morality in this story other than war’s aforementioned lack of reason.
Source: HISTORY.com http://www.history.com/topics/vietnam-war/women-in-the-vietnam-war
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ReplyDeleteIn most wars when you think about soldiers fighting in combat you picture men on the front. Women, although involved in the Vietnam war, were considered second class soldiers who were often nurses or secretaries. All women volunteered to go to war but not all of them went for the same reason. Some went to carry out a family legacy or to show their patriotism while others enlisted to avoid marriage and have a chance to explore the world. Although there was three times as many male soldiers as female, the amount of women fighting in the war totaled to a whopping 265,000. Most of the American women in the war felt comfortable getting along with the men since the attention was less on gender and more on staying alive. That being said, once nurses returned from the war they realized the same gender inequalities existed from when they left for the war. Mary Anne is an accurate example of a female in the war who starts of as flat person who's been sheltered most of her life and then develops into a war-enthusiast and becomes bold and ambitious. War empowers and liberates her to discover more of the world and travel. I believe that her story would be considered a "true war story" since it depicts the raw truth of the war in a beautiful way, all the while making the reader question the truthfulness and morals of the story. Mary Anne is not objectified in the typical way a women would be at the time because the soldiers see her as an equal since the conditions they are all under level the playing field and put men and women on the same pedestal. -Laila Nordberg
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ReplyDeleteDuring the war, women played a key a role. These roles weren't as soldiers though, the roles were more of nurses and clerks/secretaries. Some also participated in the uniformed services and helped out at organizations such as the USO. The women were also expected to wear certain types of clothing and take care of "household" chores. Frankly, Mary Anne did a lot of things that were not expected of women in those times. For example, she was in an ambush with the Green Berets. A women going into an ambush would never happen. As she went through her time being there, she changed a lot. From her appearance to her personality. She started off as womanly as she could have been ,always having her nails filed and her hair clean and then it turned into her not caring about that as much. Everyone seemed to let her be until the ambush when her boyfriend, Fossie gets extremely upset with her and then all of a sudden you see a change. She's back into more feminine clothing and her hair is "freshly shampooed"(O'Brien 98). She's objectified by Fossie to look a certain way just because of the mere fact that she is a woman. The other men didn't seem to have a problem with it. I think just her looking more "masculine" than him made him very upset.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien characterizes a "true war story" as 'the special way that dawn spreads out on a river when you know you must cross the river and march into the mountains and do the things you are afraid to do. It's about love and memory'(O'Brien 81). We get from the description of Mary Anne's time there that she wasn't necessarily afraid to do anything. She was always ready to try something new. It was like she found a new her that she never knew she could be in connection with. She was happy. There's a connection between love and war in this. Normally that wouldn't happen because the men would leave their women at home and the women wouldn't come to the ground so this was different. Someone actually had to deal with a women who was ready to learn new things and be free and find her true happiness which was to be with her true love and to be around the war grounds.
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ReplyDeleteWomen were of great military importance during the Vietnam War. Out of the 2.7 million total soldiers who served, 265,000 were women, and about 11,000 of them were stationed in Vietnam. Nearly all women who served were volunteers and about 90 percent were nurses. However, women also worked a variety of other jobs, ranging from air traffic controllers, physicians, and intelligence officers (positions in the Women’s Army Corps) to those in the armed forces and the Red Cross. Although small in number, the women who served in the war certainly had a great impact – mostly a psychological one on the women back home, serving as role models for what women could become instead of abiding by stereotypes and the “rules” thereof. Some may say that the Vietnam War was a big step for women in achieving equality and challenging many stereotypes and prejudices they faced back home.
ReplyDeleteSurprisingly, only a handful of women actually died because of armed conflict in Vietnam compared to the amount who were willing to give their life for America. This should have definitely been reassuring and inspiring to women back at home who were also looking to make a difference.
Mary Anne shares both differences and similarities with actual women who fought in the war. They are similar in the way that both Mary Anne and her real counterparts found a sense of patriotism were eager and wanting to contribute to the effort and fight for the country. Mary Anne started out observing, then moved to being a nurse, and finally transitioned to armed combat, but the whole time she was filled with a sense of eagerness and enthusiasm to help out. O’ Brien says about Mary Anne, “The war intrigued her…She seemed comfortable and entirely at home; the hostile atmosphere did not seem to register…” (91-92). This description at the beginning of her story is very much realistic and believable. However, towards the end, O’ Brien exaggerates it when Rat Kiley tells of how she begins to live with the Green Berets and wears a human tongue necklace and goes out barefoot with no weapon on ambushes. Those descriptions are stretching the limit of the whole “women in war” idea. In fact, he portrays her as developing characteristics that most men wouldn’t have or simply didn’t want. She becomes so in touch with the country that it devours her and she almost loses her sense of purpose. It’s almost like the whole country is fighting war but Mary Anne is sitting in there in the bushes with her tongue necklace, watching the pretty colors that the tracer rounds make. However, despite the fact that O’ Brien includes these over-the-top descriptions, it is a true war story according to his definition. It is not moral and has no moral: Mary Anne simply disappears because of her obsession with the war and Vietnam. It is also not believable – it sounds completely fictional. Finally, it doesn’t seem like it ever ends, like a true war story. Even though Mary Anne vanishes and is not found, it feels like she becomes part of the land and her presence looms over the soldiers in the story and the reader.
Same source as Sahm and quite possibly fragments of other people's responses too.
Women played a very important role in the war effort during the times of the Vietnam War. According to the Vietnam Women’s Memorial Foundation, “approximately 11,000 military women were stationed in Vietnam during the conflict.” The majorty of American women who served in Vietnam worked as nurses, however, women also worked as physicians, air traffic controllers, intelligence officers, clerks and held other positions in the U.S. Women’s Army Corps, U.S. Navy, Air Force and Marines and the Army Medical Specialist Corps. Also, many other women served in Vietnam on behalf of the Red Cross, United Service Organizations (USO), Catholic Relief Services and other humanitarian organizations, or as foreign correspondents for various news organizations. During the war, women also served as members of the U.S. Air Force Nurse Corps and the Women’s Air Force (WAF). On the opposing side, Vietnamese women also participated in the war effort. They were very active in combat roles. It was commonly believed that women would be better suited to do jobs that shied away from actual combat. However, these stereotypes were broken when women actually did take part in the battle. The war allowed women to push against the stereotypes about their "fragility" and about their "domestic roles," allowing them to demonstrate their strength and courage
ReplyDeleteMary Anne originally went to Vietnam to be with Fossie, her boyfriend. She performed tasks that were expected of women at the time, and she was very feminine, as she paid close attention to her appearance, always keeping her nails filed and her hair intact. As she stays with the men in Vietnam for a while, she begins to lose her dainty, feminine ways. She pays less attention to her nails and her appearance and she cuts off her hair. She picks up certain techniques in Vietnam, as she learns how to cook, a few medical skills, and she picks up on some of the Vietnamese language. Fossie wasn't very happy about this, and he wanted her to be less "masculine" and to act more dainty and "feminine." Mary Anne wasn't as oppressed by her male counterparts in the war as were many other women bc they had gotten to know her, and she became one of them. They seemed to be on the same level.
Her story can be considered a "true war story" because it touches on love and war and shows the effects that war can have. Being in Vietnam brought Mary Anne to discover a passion about the things around her, and she came to love Vietnam and embraces its culture. It also shows what going to war does to the soldiers. She originally went to Vietnam to provide Fossie with companionship and to help him through the hard times of war, but Vietnam actually ended up pulling the one that he loved away from him, therefore damaging their relationship.
-Kimora Fenton
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ReplyDeleteWomen played a major role in the vietnam war, on both sides. Around 11,000 women were stationed in Vietnam on the american side, most of which were nurses. Additionally, there was a strong force of women on the opposing side. The Viet Cong had many women in active combat roles on its side of the war. These women soldiers served a major role in helping the Viet Cong win control of the country. Many of these Vietcong women did not join the war due to loyalty to the communist party, but rather because they wanted to get rid of foreign interference in their country. Women on the american side were mostly nurses, but some had other jobs, including air traffic controllers and intelligence officers. Women also came from the US to perform other, non-military jobs, most commonly as journalists. The women that served in Vietnam were seen as role models by their counterparts back home, and were viewed as challenging stereotypes and gender norms. However, women played a significant role in opposition to the war as well. Women would organize protests and rallies, and many of the protesters themselves were women as well.
ReplyDeleteThe story of Mary Anne is a true war story in the sense that it really is hard to tell whether or not it is true. On the one hand, it seems entirely plausible that a woman would come to vietnam and be so immersed and overwhelmed by the culture that she runs off completely and joins the Viet Cong, but on the other hand, certain aspects of the story are entirely unlikely, such as the scene with the leopard head and the human tongues, not to mention, of course, Rat Kiley’s reputation for exaggeration. Mary Anne fully embraces vietnamese culture, further exemplifying the dichotomy between the soldiers and the people whose country they are fighting in.
-Cassin